[itdiscuss] Copyright

Fri Mar 13 11:37:24 EDT 2009

Bobby, 

Thanks for your insight on this. I'm in the process of preparing a
breakout talk for MinistryTECH in April about streaming, and I'll be
touching on the copyright issues involved. Having this discussion is
very helpful. 

Ian Beyer

Network Administrator

United Methodist Church of the Resurrection

13720 Roe Ave

Leawood KS 66224

http://www.cor.org

Google Voice: (913) 586-4618

Office: (913) 544-0288

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Bobby Stewart
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 10:37 AM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] Copyright

Much of what I said still applies. Many times our materials for, let's
say, Sunday School give permissions for copying. Other times not.
Multimedia gets to be a sticky subject but becomes much more manageable
with arrangements like what is facilitated through Christian Copyright
Licensing, Inc. (CCLI). Lots more info at their  knowledgebase
<http://support.ccli.com/knowledgebase/afmmain.aspx?topicid=&faqid=&ques
tion=>  page.

Our graphic arts team has moved us much farther into the "safe" area of
reproducing images by acquiring them through many of the clearing houses
for such. Clipart.com, GettyImages.com, Fotosearch.com and many others
have images that when purchased by subscription or individually are
royalty-free thereby eliminating the need for concern for their
distribution.

Many others require different arrangements. Take for instance the
Fireproof movie. Arrangements to view that movie as a church sponsored
event are handled by Outreach Marketing with their own terms and
conditions shown here
<http://www.outreach.com/print/DetailPage.asp?sid=496A88004994617F&N=41+
114&R=10061> .

While it may take some effort to procure the rights you seek, laziness
is not an excuse we should use . I view these materials no differently
than software. The rights to use them is still governed by law and the
value we place on those who create the materials we would use.

The biggest problem I've encountered is in churches where the staff are
not very well versed in these matters (usually smaller churches) and
therefore don't really consider the ramifications. These churches and
individuals just don't stop and think about making 100 copies of a CD or
buying one copy  of an octavo and copying it for the entire choir. I'm
not condemning them for doing it but lamenting the lack of education
many have. The grandmother and the child recently prosecuted under
copyright infringement only had the excuse that they were ignorant.

As Ken Thompson said, "We prefer to ask permission rather than to ask
forgiveness and find that most people are more than happy to give that
permission." You can leave us in the column voting conservative.

Bobby Stewart

Network Analyst

Brentwood Baptist Church

Brentwood, TN

(615) 324-6149 office

(615) 830-0012 cell

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of LeVeque, Josh
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:05 AM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] Copyright

I should probably clarify that I am not talking about software.
Software licensing tends to be pretty cut and dry as well as
controllable.  What I am talking about are videos/multimedia both in
worship services and online, redistribution through YouTube or hosted
directly on the church site.  For instance, on our podcast/sermon audio,
we don't include our worship set for download or streaming.  We also cut
out things which fall under "fair use" in a teaching environment, but
could possibly not be seen the same way if they were redistributed
online.

I know I've seen a blog post from Tim Stephens here
<http://www.leadingsmart.com/leadingsmart/2007/04/copyright_or_co.html>
.  I was just wondering where others stand.

Thanks,

Josh

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Bobby Stewart
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:23 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] Copyright

I agree. I have had occasion to have to decide on a software product.
Part of the decision was that someone in the organization had
distributed improperly licensed versions of that product to users. I
decided that it was best for me to purchase the product I otherwise
might not have, in order to compensate the publisher for the product
that was effectively stolen.

It may be a "render unto Caesar" (Mat 22:21) but it is also a "worker
deserves his wages" (1 Tim 5:18b) issue. We may not like the amounts
that are charged but we would be thieves if we used the software without
paying for the license to do so.

So, if we take the "liberal" position as you've stated it (ask
forgiveness rather than permission) we also run afoul of, "Are we to
remain in sin so that grace may increase?" (Rom 6:1). Rather we should
"abstain from all appearance of evil" (1 Thes 5:22), letting "[our] yes
be yes and [our] no be no so that [we] may not fall into judgment" (Mat
5:37) and we should "let [our] light so shine before men that they may
see [our] good works and glorify [our] Father in Heaven."

In its own way, careless use of software, images and text for web pages,
bulletins, postcards, video presentations or anything else we may do in
the church for which we've not been granted the proper permissions is a
stain on the Church and soils the name of Jesus.

OK, that was a little preachy but sometimes it just comes out. To sum it
up, I vote conservative.

Blessings,

Bobby Stewart

Network Analyst

Brentwood Baptist Church

Brentwood, TN

(615) 324-6149 office

(615) 830-0012 cell

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Thompson, Ken
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:02 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] Copyright

MTW strives to keep both the letter and the spirit of the law. If we
find we have messed up we work to make it right. We prefer to ask
permission rather than to ask forgiveness and find that most people are
more than happy to give that permission.

Ken Thompson

IT Manager, Mission to the World

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of LeVeque, Josh
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:19 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: [itdiscuss] Copyright

Just wanted to get some opinions, how are you guys handling copyright? 

Would you consider your approach to be conservative (you are NOT doing
things you'd like to do because of copyright), neutral (you dance in the
grey areas) or liberal (you ask for forgiveness rather than ask for
permission)?  I was looking specifically when it comes to what you
distribute to the web or have on your servers.  What are your common
practices?

I know it's not a topic that lots of people want to address, but I
really am interested in the logic and processes you are using with
regards to copyright.

Thanks,

Josh

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